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bardiphouka) wrote2012-03-17 02:18 pm
bardiphouka) wrote2012-03-17 02:18 pm
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brigits_flame
Prompt:sanguine
Genre: Poetry
Word Count:184
A/N follow the piece
I could hear them there;
joining in the tall, green
and sun-soaked grass in
the late Kansas Summer.
Poppa was, Mrs Keyes said,
sanguine about such matters.
I was not sure what she meant
as bare limbs soaked sun and love.
That was in Kansas, long and
months ago in a time of heat.
Wagons strained to be off as
we played between the horses.
The air filled with the scent of
fertile grain. And then of mud
and autumn. I remember the dull
drudging of the trail, day by day.
And then everything turned white.
Deep white, moon white, shroud white.
I felt so tired and cold as the world
filled with white and then red.
I remember someone calling out:
“It's one of the Donner girls.
She's alive!” “You fool,
cover her. Don't let her see.”
I wanted to tell them.
I had seen bare limbs not long ago.
In the green fields of Kansas
they had moved in hope and love.
Certainly not this still and scattered around
the saw that had been their last caress.
A/N+ in the mid 18th CE there was a great American tragedy. A group of settlers on their way to the west coast were stranded in the middle of a blizzard and ended up being their own last supplies as it were. As it happens one of the survivors was a daughter of the leader of the party. I have used a bit or two of her book for colour.
brigits_flamePrompt:sanguine
Genre: Poetry
Word Count:184
A/N follow the piece
I could hear them there;
joining in the tall, green
and sun-soaked grass in
the late Kansas Summer.
Poppa was, Mrs Keyes said,
sanguine about such matters.
I was not sure what she meant
as bare limbs soaked sun and love.
That was in Kansas, long and
months ago in a time of heat.
Wagons strained to be off as
we played between the horses.
The air filled with the scent of
fertile grain. And then of mud
and autumn. I remember the dull
drudging of the trail, day by day.
And then everything turned white.
Deep white, moon white, shroud white.
I felt so tired and cold as the world
filled with white and then red.
I remember someone calling out:
“It's one of the Donner girls.
She's alive!” “You fool,
cover her. Don't let her see.”
I wanted to tell them.
I had seen bare limbs not long ago.
In the green fields of Kansas
they had moved in hope and love.
Certainly not this still and scattered around
the saw that had been their last caress.
A/N+ in the mid 18th CE there was a great American tragedy. A group of settlers on their way to the west coast were stranded in the middle of a blizzard and ended up being their own last supplies as it were. As it happens one of the survivors was a daughter of the leader of the party. I have used a bit or two of her book for colour.
no subject
Tis all blood and gore,
Not like my Bardi was of yore,
Can I persuade you not to write
On such subjects? Try a bright
Outlook on things. Grow fairy wings;
Or is it just one of those things?
And what will make you sad again
Is Ireland lost their rugby game!
To their ancient enemy,
Sad for Michael McMenamy.
(Their 2nd coach I heard one say
But maybe my hearing's gone astray?)
Its a lovely poem, till you get to the end. Oh dear, oh nasty dear.
Cuddles if you are feeling down, love,
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
I could hear them there; --> try a comma instead of a semicolon, as it doesn't divide two complete sentences
joining in the tall, green
and sun-soaked grass in
the late Kansas Summer. --> reconsider capitalization of summer
Poppa was, Mrs Keyes said,
sanguine about such matters.
I was not sure what she meant
as bare limbs soaked sun and love. --> I like the way this line fits together
That was in Kansas, long and
months ago in a time of heat. --> "long and months ago" sounds awkward to me
Wagons strained to be off as
we played between the horses. --> lots of implications in this one vivid image
The air filled with the scent of
fertile grain. And then of mud --> "And then of mud and autumn" is a fragment; consider attaching it to the previous sentence.
and autumn. I remember the dull
drudging of the trail, day by day.
And then everything turned white.
Deep white, moon white, shroud white. --> excellent line! not what I expect to hear about white.
I felt so tired and cold as the world
filled with white and then red. --> how would this sound if it was "with white and then with red"?
....
Certainly not this still and scattered around
the saw that had been their last caress. --> fantastic closing line!
I like the way you set up the two kinds of bare limbs in this - that works really well. The single more jarring thing I wanted to point out is the disconnect between someone finding the narrator alive and the previous stanzas. Because the red is just glossed over up until that point, it didn't make a whole lot of sense. The ending does help pull things together, and maybe you prefer people to need a second reading to really understand the poem, but that's just my take on it. Maybe someone else found it much more obvious! It could be in part because I don't have any reference for how much time has passed from the prior stanza.
The next thought I have relates to connecting the last stanza better. It took a couple of readings to see what you were saying with the "certainly not" part of it, so might I propose the following change:
In the green fields of Kansas
they had moved in hope and love,
rather than this stillness, scattered around
the saw that had been their last caress.
As one final note, I didn't fully understand the implications of all the white and red before reading the author's note. However, that didn't detract from my appreciation of the themes or the imagery of the poem. Other readers' mileage may vary! I can only comment on my own experiences. At any rate, standard disclaimer that all these comments are suggestions only. Any questions or desire for debate: feel free to engage. I'd like to be as helpful to you as I can!
no subject
I could hear them there; --> try a comma instead of a semicolon, as it doesn't divide two complete sentences
But a comma does not provide as much breath as a semicolon does. That,cough, and I have been reminded of my tendency to overdo commas.
Summer. --> reconsider capitalization of summer
I was raised to capitalise the seasons. I have been told by reliable sources that this is no longer done. In this case I just missed it on the rewrite. Mea culpa.
"long and months ago" sounds awkward to me
I think it needs redone. There is a reason for it being like that. I was trying to get the gist of a mid 60s matron remembering an event when she was four years old.
And then of mud and autumn" is a fragment; consider attaching it to the previous
I tried that earlier and it did not work. I think the entire stanza needs reworked to be honest with you.
how would this sound if it was "with white and then with red"?
I had tried that and decided it flowed too well, when I was going after something more abrupt.
As for the time passed, it is referenced (months) earlier in the poem.
In the green fields of Kansas
they had moved in hope and love,
rather than this stillness, scattered around
the saw that had been their last caress.
as a last stanza? A bit redundant, given that i have mentioned that in the beginning of the poem. Plus if you notice, the narrator becomes more and more isolated as the poem goes on. This is one thing I had noticed in the book,reading Eliza's account of what happened. the mention of her being tired and cold is a reference to her being one of the only people left in her area, and to hypothermia.
Btw, I cannot really take credit for the last couplet. I may have changed the phrasing, but the scene was sadly real.
Thank you for the comments. It is always interesting to go back and have to look at what I have written. This poem, along with Lizzie Borden and Jack the Ripper, will be at some point be polished and made part of a set. What I need to do is write some history poems that have a lower body count,eh?
no subject
But a comma does not provide as much breath as a semicolon does.
Perhaps a colon, then, to balance the need for breath with grammatical correctness?
There is a reason for it being like that. I was trying to get the gist of a mid 60s matron remembering an event when she was four years old.
Ah! That makes sense to me. I wasn't picking up on such a big age difference.
As for the end-of-poem thoughts: I kept what you already had there and just changed the punctuation at the end of the second-to-last stanza in order to connect the last stanza a little better. If you're looking to keep the final stanza completely separate, I'd suggest changing the wording some - I had a hard time understanding it because of the disconnect, which could also be partly because of the way it's phrased. Your original wording didn't make much sense to me in the first line of the last stanza.
Maybe I've expressed my thoughts more clearly this time around. Either way, I'm always available for more editing chatter!
You do an excellent job handling the imagery of all your high body count poetry!
no subject
as to the last couplet. hmmm
Your editor here!
I could hear them there;
joining in the tall, green
and sun-soaked grass in
the late Kansas Summer.
Punctuation works the same way in poetry as it does in normal prose. So, with semicolons, there's two times you can use them.
1. When there is a complete sentence on BOTH sides of the semicolon, and the first sentence leads logically into the second.
2. When you have a list that already includes commas. Such as in the case of Boston, MA; Chicago, IL; Augusta, ME.
I think that first semicolon may be best as either a colon or a dash.
---
tall, green and sun-soaked grass
Consider as "tall, green, sun-soaked grass"
---
Summer = summer.
---
I was not sure what she meant
as bare limbs soaked sun and love.
The first of these lines doesn't really follow into the second well for me as a reader. Could you explain to me what I'm missing here?
---
The air filled with the scent of
fertile grain. And then of mud
and autumn.
I like the rhythm of this, but I'm thinking maybe a dash after the word "then"?
---
"dull
drudging of the trail, day by day"
Nice use of alliteration. :-)
---
I felt so tired and cold as the world
filled with white and then red.
"So" as a quantitative is a very empty word -- one that begs "so what?". Instead, maybe something more actionable, such as "Exhaustion and chill seeped into my bones as the world..."?
---
"You fool,
cover her."
Hm. This line sits poorly with me. I think it's the order -- if covering her was urgent, wouldn't he say that part before calling him a fool? Also, if it's urgent, is an exclamation point in order?
---------------
Overall, this is great -- particularly the concept in which you juxtapose the "joining" of making love with the cannibalism at the end. I do think that the implication of humans consuming humans towards the end could be a bit stronger -- without the postscript it would certainly have been lost on me. But otherwise, the choices of sensual words, coloration, and particularly the saw at the end is especially well done.
Like it. :-) Thanks so much for sharing this with us!
Re: Your editor here!
Firstly, I shall not use dashes unless I start to channel James Joyce. In prose perhaps, but not in poetry.
When I was trying to remember which is used when, I had to google, having misplaced my suitable texts. The first four articles I came up with had four different sets of rules. Given that there are two main clauses, I chose semicolon. Especially since it breathes better.
I disagree, btw, that poetry must have the same grammatical practises as prose. It can, certainly. But there are different reasons, at least in my case, for using grammar. My poetry is primarily aural, and the punctuation serves as guidelines for how to read it aloud. As it happens, I did have a professional copy editor look at this piece first, and the semicolon was allowed to stay.
As I might have mentioned earlier, I was raised to capitalise the seasons. I am told this is no longer the case. As it happens, err, I forgot to change that one. Mea Culpa.
The first of these lines doesn't really follow into the second well for me as a reader. Could you explain to me what I'm missing here?
Again, my fault. I should have mentioned that the narrator was thinking back to being four years old. And thus would not have understood what the adult meant.
like the rhythm of this, but I'm thinking maybe a dash after the word "then"?
See prior comment on the evil dash.
Nice use of alliteration. :-)
Thank you.
"So" as a quantitative is a very empty word -- one that begs "so what?". Instead, maybe something more actionable, such as "Exhaustion and chill seeped into my bones as the world..."?
I wanted empty though. To engage in hyperbole, imho,would have been to step out of the character of the narrator.
Hm. This line sits poorly with me. I think it's the order -- if covering her was urgent, wouldn't he say that part before calling him a fool? Also, if it's urgent, is an exclamation point in order?
One would thing, but the quote, which is what that was, is as I worded it. They did not, btw, know it was a Donner child though, because she had grown so emaciated. Or at least so she was told later.
The original draft was stronger btw, and I did not like it at all. Even as it is this version made people uneasy. And again, this is based (loosely) on an autobiography of one of the Donners. And so there was a distance, a greying of the edges, in that she was four at the time of the incident and in her sixties when she wrote it. The purpose of the poem was not so much a relaying of the gruesome bits as it was the effect over the decades on one of the survivors.
I do appreciate you taking the time to examining such a slight effort in such great effect. I do enjoy having to go back and look at what i have written, regardless of whether I agree or disagree.
But dashes, as Brother George used to say in English Honours, are part of a Morse code signal sent by Lucifer. Or a Baptist.
(no offense to any Baptists. Brother George was rather old and set in his ways, even though he had been seen riding an Indian motorcycle, robes flying.)
Re: Your editor here!
There's nothing wrong with dashes. In fact, they're a valuable part of grammar. I'm not sure where you got the notion that they were an element of some sort of pidgin grammar.
When I was trying to remember which is used when, I had to google, having misplaced my suitable texts. The first four articles I came up with had four different sets of rules. Given that there are two main clauses, I chose semicolon. Especially since it breathes better.
That's just it -- there is not two main clauses there. "Joining" could feasibly be used as either a subject or a verb -- but not both. Everything after the word "joining" is part of a prepositional phrase. So no, this is not an appropriate place for a semicolon.
I disagree, btw, that poetry must have the same grammatical practises as prose. It can, certainly. But there are different reasons, at least in my case, for using grammar. My poetry is primarily aural, and the punctuation serves as guidelines for how to read it aloud. As it happens, I did have a professional copy editor look at this piece first, and the semicolon was allowed to stay.
Well, you're right; it does not, necessarily. I will abridge my statement and say that modern poetry follows the grammatical rules of prose. If you were writing in, say, iambic pentameter, or some other classical poetic format I would be looking at the piece differently. Modern poetry is very free-form, as your piece is, and I am editing it as such.
I am also a professional copy editor, and I am giving you specific reasons for why the semicolon needs to go. Ultimately, it's your piece, so do with this information as you may.
As I might have mentioned earlier, I was raised to capitalise the seasons. I am told this is no longer the case. As it happens, err, I forgot to change that one. Mea Culpa.
Did your professional copy editor catch it?
I wanted empty though. To engage in hyperbole, imho,would have been to step out of the character of the narrator.
Empty and hyperbole are opposite extremes. But then again, looking back, I do see how the wording is more akin to the reader's voice than was my suggestion.
One would thing, but the quote, which is what that was, is as I worded it. They did not, btw, know it was a Donner child though, because she had grown so emaciated. Or at least so she was told later.
The original draft was stronger btw, and I did not like it at all. Even as it is this version made people uneasy. And again, this is based (loosely) on an autobiography of one of the Donners. And so there was a distance, a greying of the edges, in that she was four at the time of the incident and in her sixties when she wrote it. The purpose of the poem was not so much a relaying of the gruesome bits as it was the effect over the decades on one of the survivors.
I think it's OK to make people feel uneasy with the subject matter of a piece -- particularly if that subject matter is about something so gruesome and carnal. Or, perhaps, carnal and gruesome, respectively. And while I do see that the macabre is not the focus of the story, understanding its horror is central to properly grok the experience of those accounting it and living with it.
I do appreciate you taking the time to examining such a slight effort in such great effect. I do enjoy having to go back and look at what i have written, regardless of whether I agree or disagree.
I'm glad you enjoy it. :-) Healthy debate can be edifying for all parties involved.
But dashes, as Brother George used to say in English Honours, are part of a Morse code signal sent by Lucifer. Or a Baptist.
Why?
Re: Your editor here!
as for dashes. Hmm. I am guessing here that it has something to do with James Joyce. Who loved dashes to an extreme, and who was, in his way Lucifer to the Church at the time. Bear in mind that I started my education prior to Vatican II. Thus to the teachers at my various schools, if James Joyce liked it, then it must be evil.
Re: Your editor here!
And the dashes: I find dashes to be extremely useful in aiding me to portray the cadence and meaning of my language. In fact, you are struggling to not use them, as I see in this statement in a previous comment:
But a comma does not provide as much breath as a semicolon does. That,cough, and I have been reminded of my tendency to overdo commas.
You are using a piece of grammar that (let's be hypothetical and say it's grammatically correct), raises red flags, and seems awkward to readers. And why? Because a comma doesn't provide the pause you need, and you've arbitrarily forsaken them. Emily Dickinson also championed the dash, and precedes Joyce significantly. The Devil is said to walk in the woods as well, and yet I shall love nature nonetheless. ;-)
Re: Your editor here!
Re: Your editor here!
Jane Austen
Edgar Allen Poe
John Irving
Joseph Heller
In poetry:
Elizabeth Sargent
William Shakespeare
Edgar Allen Poe
William Carlos Williams
Sylvia Plath
Stephen Dobyns
Robert Frost
Langston Hughes
I also notice on this "Ray Bradbury Quotes" site that he's often quoted with dashes:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/r/ray_bradbury.html